Joined: Sept 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 202 Karma: 9
Re: economics in a post apocalyptic world « Reply #1 on Aug 2, 2011, 12:31pm »
Hard to say, really. I think a lot depends on the nature of the apocalypse and the amount of devastation involved. That will dictate how much travel might take place and when, know what I mean? You can't have commerce on a scale like that without the means to bring the goods to market, so to speak.
Regardless, I think it will probably start small, with just individuals bartering for this and that. Gradually over time, some types of markets will become established.
Joined: Jul 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 395 Location: London Karma: 18
Re: economics in a post apocalyptic world « Reply #3 on Aug 2, 2011, 3:02pm »
I think much depends on the post-apoc scenario.
In my own favourite pandemic style SHTF event then I reckon it that any recommencement of trade will be based on skill sets rather than material goods which would not be in short supply.
So anybody with any sort of medical skill, be it Doctors, midwives and dentists, will have a value. The question is what will people exchange for those services ?
Personally, and I know its me being me and thinking of the whole 22 years later ‘thang’, then I reckon gold will be the resource that would under-pin a return to a rudimentary money system because history very plainly tells us so.
Yes, controlling things like coal and salt production would matter but ultimately I still think mankind would revert to what it knows and that is the single fact that gold is what we seem to ultimately place our trust in for monetary purposes.
In any other post apoc scenario then it will be soft toilet paper. Thats what will matter, especially the stuff that remains sealed in its original packaging. Gonna be priceless.
yeah, I don't see a currency of bottle caps or anything like that happening, but more trading for good and services.
Thats what you think, but when it happens and I have my outpost all set up I'm taking bottlecaps and can tabs as currency. Also with the people of the US being so used to paper money I think it's likely that we will see paper money either still being used or being made. Coins though may take on the role of the main currency as they last longer, a cent may become a dollar etc etc.
Thats what you think, but when it happens and I have my outpost all set up I'm taking bottlecaps and can tabs as currency.
Also with the people of the US being so used to paper money I think it's likely that we will see paper money either still being used or being made. Coins though may take on the role of the main currency as they last longer, a cent may become a dollar etc etc.
Then you aint going to be in business for very long. Any sort of collapse which removes the authourity of any form of central government will mean that every dollar/pound/euro/whatever note will be only valued in terms of kindling (or toilet paper-do you dedect a theme here). Trust me, your buisness plan has a major flaw. Cigarettees, then maybe but even so they have a limited value.
Bullets, beans and bandages. Those will be what matters initally. And then gold. It will all go back to that.
However dont be to disheartened. With your grasp of economics then a bright future awaits you in our current banking system. You should go far.
Joined: Sept 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 202 Karma: 9
Re: economics in a post apocalyptic world « Reply #6 on Aug 4, 2011, 9:59am »
Paper money has absolutely no intrinsic value. It, in and of itself, isn't worth much of anything. It only has value when a group of people get together and agree that THIS piece of paper is worth x amount of gold/silver/whatever. They do so because hauling around a bag of gold for making purchases is inconvenient at best.
Coins, on the other hand, USED to have intrinsic value. There actually was an amount of precious metal contained within the coin. Nowadays here in the US, not so much.
Now, with all that said, I could see a fiat currency coming into play again, albeit on a very small scale. For example, if there were a village of a couple thousand people, they might create their own form of currency just for ease of commerce. The currency would have absolutely no value outside their own village and it might not even be backed by any real commodity. They would create something, whether slips of paper or coins or whatever, and agree as a group that each one has a certain value.
I don't see gold being precious again for a good long time, I personally don't find gold to be all that great but that's me.
But you do find pop tops to be precious?
King, I think the point is being lost on you. When it comes to some form of accepted currency, it doesn't much matter if YOU find it to be inherently valuable. It is what is deemed to be acceptable and customary by the society around you. Personally, I don't have much use for diamonds in my day-to-day life but I recognize that they have value to other people and thus would readily accept them right now as payment in a transaction, knowing I could then trade them for something of interest to me personally.
Joined: Apr 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 1,888 Location: The Mojave Waste Karma: 23
Re: economics in a post apocalyptic world « Reply #9 on Aug 4, 2011, 4:06pm »
I understand that they have value to other people, just not to me. I am just saying gold has no use in a collapse other than to weigh you down and get you killed because someone wants it because it is shiny. While I'm sure people will still kill for gold should shit hit the fan though, just like they do now. Greed knows no bounds after all.
I understand that they have value to other people, just not to me.
But its that communal value that matters. Yes, you can barter things such as food and medicine but thats only basic trade. Gold offers a commodity that has a shared worth along with being durable and also easy to work so that it can only people to express the value they put on it in a variety of ways be it in the form of coinage to jewelry.
However you hit on a good point when you talk about people being willing to kill for it. For me before any sort of real trade can start again there has to be a return to law and order, even if its in a brutal form.
What also interests me, from a PA pov, is what will happen to property rights ? At what stage of the 'fall' will these no longer have any meaning ? There was an interesting episode in the original BBC survivors series. The main characters stumble into a conflict between a group of people who have taken over a Stately home and the surviving son of the people who originally owned it. He believed that he was entitled to live there as Lord of the Manor and that people who wanted to live in the grounds of the Estate would have to agree to his rule.
It was perhaps a very 'British' theme given our class structure but I also thought it dealt with quite a complex notion of human relationships.
it's something that I was thinking about yesterday.
after a period of "teetering on the edge" how long would it take for the various small kingdoms to start doing business.
what would they trade, and when does it enter from post-apocalypse to more of post-post apocalypse?
I think in most circumstances it would be trade for a long time, at least until small governments started popping up. Initially there wouldn't even be markets for trade. No resources to start them, and not enough word of mouth to find them. It'd be very person-to-person, trading one thing for another.
Joined: Aug 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 10 Location: Texas Karma: 0
Re: economics in a post apocalyptic world « Reply #12 on Aug 10, 2011, 9:45pm »
Ok, the reason we have any type of currency is because the government agrees to back the currency. THAT is what gives our money any value.
What will have value in the PA environment? Well, what ever you need will be what will have value to you.
Barter trading will be the only thing going on in the PA environment until you have another government that is willing create their own currency. They will be the ones to set a value for coins or paper or whatever they want to be the form of their currency.
As it was said earlier, small communities will most likely set up their own type of currency to be used between each other instead of traiding skill sets. It would be easier to sell your food to the market and be paid in "coins". You then could pay for any type of medical treatment you need with these coins. The doctor could then would pay for his food from the market with these coins. Other wise you would have to barter with the doctor for medical treatment with food you have grown.
A good example of this localized currency would be found in the movie Waterworld.
Ok, the reason we have any type of currency is because the government agrees to back the currency. THAT is what gives our money any value.
But all Governments still need to hold gold to have that ultimate assurance.
Its the key to all basic monetary systems. You can have a dual system such as we had in Britain (we relied on both Gold and Silver) but its the yellow stuff which ultimately matters and which will in a PA situation be the commodity that under pins any return to a monetary system.
Joined: Aug 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 10 Location: Texas Karma: 0
Re: economics in a post apocalyptic world « Reply #14 on Aug 11, 2011, 10:31am »
Matov: I am not disagreeing with you. I do believe that gold will be currency of choice in the years after a PA event. I was saying that for their to be a common currency throught an entire country you first have to have a government in place to regulate it.
In the mean time, you will have a barter system and once small communities spring up you will get a localized currency.
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